Ok, over on Gay Patriot, one of the more imbecilic commenters makes the classic “why dictatorship is superior to democracy” argument. He starts by quoting me:
Just out of curiosity, who did that limitation and proscribing? Would it be the voters, through their elected representatives?
Would it be We the People?
You know, rob, it’s people like you who make me feel so strongly that things like Prop 8 must pass. Because what you’re arguing for is “judicial” dictatorship. You think that it’s good when an oligarchy that calls itself a “Supreme Court” forces on the rest of us the personal desires and whims of the members of that oligarchy. You think it’s good when the sovereignty of the voters is trampled by dishonest jerks who violate their oaths of office and rewrite on the Constitution.
BTW, let’s be clear here. I am all in favor of following the actual US Constitution. I think that every State should follow it’s own Constitution, too. I have no problem with a Supreme Court Justice striking down a law that actually violates the Constitution. But, when a Justice does that, (s)he is doing so because of the power granted to him / her by The People in order to enforce The People’s decisions. It is, therefore, a legitimate exercise of power.
When a “Justice” decides to “add” his or her personal desires and whims to the Constitution, and force them on the rest of us, (s)he is engaging in an abuse of power, and is acting as a domestic enemy to the Constitution (s)he is so abusing. It does not matter what that person is forcing on the rest of us, the abuse of power is wrong, and must be fought by any and all decent human beings. Or at least, by any decent human being who claims to believe in democracy.
“Believing in Democracy” does not mean you think the voters will always get it right. No human institution always gets anything right. Believing in Democracy means you think it’s The People who have the right to screw things up. “Believing in a Living Constitution” means you think it’s the right of members of a Supreme Court to screw up. Etc.
Now, Rib could try to argue that the 4 members of the CA Supreme Court didn’t actually invent a “right” to SSM, that the voters had actually put it into the CA State Constitution. Happily, Rob doesn’t decide to insult our intelligence by making that patently false argument. Instead, Rob responds by telling us that, yes, he hates democracy:
You’re damn right the power of “we the people” is limited. What happens, Greg, when I convince 51% of the people to make your religion illegal because we disapprove? Shall we hound the Mormons to a new Utah? Put the snake handlers on a reservation somewhere?
Well, just to start, I have no religion, so it would be hard for the voters to ban it.
But, more importantly, this argument is logically and historically imbecilic. How many democracies do you know of that ban and oppress religions? How many dictatorships?
And, BTW, where did our limitation on oppressing other people’s religions come from? Did it come from the Courts? No. It came from the 1st Amendment. Which is to say, it came from the voters.
Or shall we deprive you of your right to be as cussed, racist and ornery as you please, because 51% of the people who show up to vote decide your brand of cussed orneriness is “politically incorrect?” Hmmm, Greg? I’m sure I can find 51% of Californians who will find your politics distasteful. Shall the citizens of the State of California pass a proposition next year making it illegal to be a Republican?
Gosh, where is it, today, that such horrible things happen? Would it be at Universities? Places that are ignoring the 1st Amendment that WE The People decided to impose upon the government? You know, dictatorships run by the same kind of people Rob is embracing when he celebrates “judges” imposing SSM on the rest of us?
Yes, it would.
Shall we take away your beer by constitutional amendment? The people demanded that particular idea as well. Or shall we take away your cigarettes? Simply because I can round up enough votes, and it’s bad for you?
Yes, they did. Then, later, they undid that choice. It appears here that Rob is saying that, rather than having The People pass the 21st Amendment to overturn the 18th, Supreme Court should simply have tossed it out.
Or your right to a gun? After all, the people in DC demanded that one as well.
Yep, and 4 of the “Justices” that Rob likes voted to completely ignore the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution, and substitute their own personal whims instead.
The exact thing I’m arguing against.
Ultimately, the same principle you’re so hot to use today against “me” will come around and be used against you tomorrow, Greg. Because we can always find something you do that is “immoral” or “icky” or “distasteful.” And on that day, you will be standing here and saying “the government can’t do that” despite the fact somebody can drum up a majority to do so.
That’s why the minority of rich, highly educated, idle rich old guys limited the power of the ballot, Greg, and it’s ability to allow Government to intrude into your life. Because the tyranny of the majority is a fickle thing – in the end, everybody is some kind of minority. And yes, some day the majority will turn against something you find dear, and you will pray to God for an “activist judge” to stand up there and say “no.”
We see here the fundamental incoherence of his position. “you can’t be allowed to vote on things, because a previous group of voters decided that ‘the Judges’ would be a Holy Class who would tell all the rest of us what decisions we could be allowed to make, such pronouncements to be made based solely upon the desires and whims of the Priesthood of the Judges, because they’re the only ones who can be counted upon not to trample upon ‘our rights'” (you know, the “rights” that we only have because they gave them to us, and therefore won’t have (to be trampled on) if they chose to take them away from us).
Pitiful and pathetic. I thought he was going to be more coherent, which is why I wasted this much time on it.
Anyone got a better presentation of these ideas for me to crush?